Two years since he replaced Amama Mbabazi as prime minister in September 2014, DR RUHAKANA RUGUNDA talks to Sadab Kitatta Kaaya, offering a measured assessment of his own tenure as leader of government business in parliament. Below are excerpts:
It is seven months since the new government was inaugurated, how do you rate your cabinet?
Since May, government has worked well; it has energetically embarked on a number of projects, basically consolidation and completion of projects that were underway especially in the infrastructure area.
It has handled issues of Operation Wealth Creation to ensure that there is increased production in agriculture, leading to increased incomes for the population. It has embarked on special programs for the women, youths, to ensure that they have projects, jobs and increased income.
Recently we have had some challenges in the area of food security [but] government has mobilized politically and organized material resources so that we can feed our people.
We have done a lot in the region especially with our regional interactions with our neighbours, especially on [the situation in South Sudan]. We have had interactions with our Kenyan neighbours on our regional projects and the northern corridor programs going on, [and] preparations continue for the Standard Gauge Railway.
We have looked at a number of challenges in the education sector, which we are dealing with, Makerere [University] is a case in point and [some] other universities. So, in a nutshell, government is on course, it is doing what it promised the nation.
Talking about the food security problem, critics say the food relief you are sending to the famine-hit districts is too little. Did you underestimate the problem?
It is true that we have sent out food relief [and] we are fully aware that it cannot be enough. The focus, however, has been to concentrate on the very badly-hit, the elderly, [expectant] mothers and the sick, especially those on treatment.
Could that be the reason why government is now considering suspending some infrastructural development projects and divert the money to buying food?
We will do whatever we can to make sure that the people of Uganda are protected from famine brought on by the drought. If it becomes necessary, yes, government is very ready to reconsider; to review the budget in order to ensure that there is provision for the critically- required food to save lives.
Public universities have been striking; Makerere is now closed; are the university problems too complex for government to fix?
First of all, most of the universities in the country are stable. They are working, and working well. It is true there has been quite a bit of hassling, quite a number of strikes at Makerere but Makerere is a bit of an exception and should not be used as a standard reflection of what is happening in universities in the country.Â
There are a few others like Kabale, which is a new public university [which] has had a few challenges but really all universities are settled, teaching and doing well. In case issues come up, government through the ministry of education addresses them.
Why does government have to wait for the problems to go out of hand?
Government does not wait; on the contrary, government tackles some of these issues and sometimes when you hear of a strike, it is more often a reflection of reaching a point of divergence or disagreement between government and some of the people involved.
It is not that government has been waiting, government is continuing, and has been addressing some of these issues… That is why President Museveni established a visitation committee for Makerere University to be able to address the fundamental issues holistically.
Is there hope that Makerere University will be opened soon?
There is no doubt about that. Every one of us wants Makerere University to be opened, and soon. However, certain critical, fundamental issues that have been causing these regular strikes must be addressed.
What are the issues?
Let’s leave that for the visitation committee.
You have been holding the office of prime minister for more than two years now, how have you found it?
First of all, it has given me an opportunity to serve the country in a more responsible position. Definitely, I must thank the president for the confidence he entrusted in me. I’m doing what I can to serve both Parliament and the government.
A prime minister is a team leader, and so, I serve with my comrades, my political colleagues – the ministers. We work as a team, where one is not available, the other one handles, and I think, our working as a team is very promising.
But we see fights between some cabinet members, for example Hon Aidah Nantaba (state for ICT) against Persis Namuganza (state for Lands); the other day your finance minister and his junior made separate appointments for the same position. How are you dealing with these conflicts?
I must say that the cabinet we have today is a very cohesive cabinet and work is going on very well. Occasionally, when you have a family, there may be a difference of opinion and quite often, the media cherishes and thrives on such difference of opinion.
When such an issue comes up; the individual ministers concerned sort it out, and if necessary, the prime minister comes in or the government chief whip. All in all, the issues are under control.
A senior minister making an appointment and his junior also making another does not reflect a lot of cohesion…
There is nothing lacking, and the ministers have already sorted out those issues. Â
It is seven months into the term of the 10th Parliament but we are not seeing much business coming to Parliament from the executive. Instead, we are seeing private members’ bills. What’s lacking?
There is plenty of business from government in Parliament and there are many bills being considered by the various committees of Parliament. There are also bills that we had saved even from the last Parliament, those are also being considered.
A full list of bills was submitted at the beginning of the 10th Parliament, different ministries are at different stages of submitting them [the bills]. Some have already been read for the first time, [and] gone to the committees and we are waiting for them to be read for the second time.
Yes there are some bills, but some MPs say there should be much more.
Well, the Leader of government business [in Parliament] has a different view. When you look at the order paper, you’ll find that there is a lot of pending business.
Secondly, we encourage MPs to be at liberty to initiate private members’ bills. Some of them are under consideration, [and] when some come, we liaise with [the sponsors] and sometimes government takes on some of these bills. It is a question of teamwork, [between] government and members of the backbench.
You yourself have been accused of missing many parliamentary sittings – maybe what you never miss is the prime minister’s question time!
First of all, that is false. I am in the House not just only for the prime minister’s question time. But it is also true that my brother, the 1st deputy prime minister and deputy leader of government business in parliament, Gen Moses Ali, when he is there, I don’t need to be there, I attend to other government responsibilities.
When Rt Hon Moses is there, it means that I am also there, and even the Government Chief Whip Hon Ruth Nankabirwa. When she is there, government is [represented]. The critical point is, is there adequate representation of the government? The answer is yes. It doesn’t have to be the person of the prime minister. And, by the way, [government is also represented] by the presence of ministers.
Because of the heavy schedule, sometimes one is busy with other things; that is why you and I are having this interview at 8:15pm. It is not because Rugunda planned this in order to impress Kitatta. It is because the schedule of work is heavy and one doesn’t have to be in Parliament when there is adequate representation.
There are times when the House has had to be adjourned because there are no ministers to respond to issues raised.
That is just a question of coordination, sometimes, ministers may not be adequately informed; there may be some misinformation. If the minister knows that he or she is on the order paper, they will come, but sometimes that information is missing.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by misinformation?
The order paper may come out late morning or early afternoon. So, sometimes the information on what is on the order paper may not be available to the ministers [in time] and so, the minister may not realize that he or she would be required to be in the House to answer certain questions. But the main point is to encourage the ministers to ensure that they are available but they have very many other demands.
Our understanding and our guidance is that if a minister is not in the House, then another colleague must stand in. The minister must [alert] a colleague to stand in for him or her, or to send the minister of state.
Do you then think that the leadership at Parliament should change the way they operate?
The order paper coming earlier would be perfectly okay. Or even for that matter, the order paper [should be able] to indicate the following day’s business.
Our order paper indicates the day’s business and a notice of business to follow. That partly covers it, [and] one can say that we have indeed, and we shall continue to encourage ministers to be in Parliament, but it will have to be reconciled with other schedules.
How does it feel serving a government with high corruption ratings?
In my assessment, I am aware that there is some corruption in the government, and government is dealing with it head-on. That is why we have in place the auditor general to help government in exposing the problem. That is why we have the IGG [Inspector General of Government] to dig out any corruption so that government deals with it.
That’s why we have the CID [Criminal Investigations Directorate of the police] to deal with the investigations so that the necessary legal measures can be taken.
That’s why we have the DPP [Directorate of Public Prosecutions] to prosecute corruption cases; that is why we have the Anti-Corruption court to deal with the problem straight on. All in all, yes, there is corruption but government has taken extraordinary steps to deal with it and I am sure, we have the upper hand in the fight against corruption.
What are the extraordinary steps, because there are cases of corrupt officials in the auditor general’s reports not being given due attention.
I would be interested in hearing from my son Kitatta in relation to who is corrupt and has been shielded. Can you educate me? Have you not heard people being prosecuted because of the auditor general’s revelation or CID and IGG?
There is no small or big fish. So long as you are accused, the law will take its course, and as you are very well aware, both the big and small [fish] have appeared in courts of law. That will, indeed, be the order of business.
Is government, therefore, ashamed of the rampant corruption?
Government is very proud that it is facing corruption head-on… We are dealing with it with no compromise, and we’ll intensify our efforts to make sure that we defeat this monster but we would like the public not to be shy but to come out and give us information so that we can deal with this scourge of corruption.
sadabkk@observer.ug Â