On December 1, 2016, Parliament debated the recent killings in Kasese district for a second time in a week.

The debate evoked emotions and anger, as legislators traded accusations and counter-accusations regarding the violence in the Rwenzori sub-region.

The Thursday debate followed Tuesday’s failure by the House to come up with a resolution on the fate of a report by the Defence and Internal Affairs committee, which was tasked towards the end of the ninth Parliament to investigate post-election clashes in the sub-region.

We captured some of the excerpts from the Thursday debate, from which the Speaker Rebecca Kadaga directed that five MPs are co-opted onto the Defence and Internal Affairs committee to probe the Kasese killings.

Speaker of Parliament, Rebecca Kadaga: On Tuesday, we had that extensive debate on the situation in Kasese. During the debate, a number of proposals were made but I want to observe as follows; that since that debate, there have been a number of new developments. The king of Rwenzururu has been charged. Also, several other people have been arrested and probably others charged.

Now, under our Rules of Procedure, a matter may be considered sub judice if it refers to active, criminal civil proceedings and, in the opinion of the speaker, discussion of such a matter is likely to prejudice its fair determination.

Of course, the issue of sub judice is at the discretion of the speaker and one must weigh the public interest against the likely personal prejudice to the individuals involved in determining whether debate on the matter will prejudice its fair determination.

One will have to take into consideration whether it is a civil or criminal matter, and where the matter is criminal, the Speaker has to be more careful especially where personal liberty of individuals is at stake.

Now in our debate this week, there were those proposing that we have a select committee while there were those proposing that we continue working with our sectoral committee. Related to that, you may recall that in the 9th Parliament, this House directed our committee to investigate the underlying causes of conflict in the Rwenzori region.

Unfortunately, the report was never debated by the 9th Parliament; This 10th Parliament directed a similar investigation. Indeed, the committee went out and interacted with several people in the region and many stakeholders and the report on their findings has not yet been presented to this House.

I also recall in the minister’s statement, there have been other inquiries like the Kajura commission, so to me, setting up a select committee means we must start from the beginning.

We must re-interview the same people so we will be doing it like four times for the same group of people on the same issues, which I think may be counterproductive. But I would want to urge the committee to complete their report because it was done on our behalf; bring it here, table it, debate it in such a way that we are not interfering with what is going on.

Secondly, I would want to propose that the Uganda Human Rights Commission takes up those areas of human rights violations which have been alleged and conduct investigations into those incidences which have been identified and then send a report to this House. I know they have other work they are doing for the country but they should do it as a special exercise for this House.

Then, we want to send a message to the people of Kasese that we are taking their issues seriously and that we are continuing to look for ways of how to minimize those incidences and we want to appeal that the institutions in charge of the arrested persons should work through the due processes available so that justice prevails.

Then we want to ask the citizens to keep calm and remain law abiding in order to give the investigating agencies and the courts an opportunity to carry out their work. We also want to appeal to the people using social media to be more responsible because they are really causing a lot pain and havoc among the citizens and we would want to appeal that there should not be more inflammation of this situation.

That is the difficulty we are finding ourselves in; how do we discuss this matter without interfering with what is going on.

Jack Wamanga Wamai, Mbale Muncipality: Madam Speaker, following what you have just communicated, is the committee on Defence and Internal Affairs going back to Kasese [given] what has just taken place or they will just give us an old report?

Kadaga: Honourable members, I think it would be difficult to go back to the same people on the same issues. Let us receive that report, find out how far they have gone. If there are gaps, then we can look at addressing it but to say, you first go back. We would get their present report in its form.

Wilfred Niwagaba, Ndorwa East: Thank you Rt. Hon Speaker and thank you for your wise observations. However, I am at a loss because if you direct UHRC to investigate the matters that happened last week, Article 54 of our Constitution gives the Commission absolute independence from any direction or control of any person or authority. How fast can we have a report from the Commission in view of that provision?

Gilbert Olanya, Kilak South: Rt. Hon Speaker, my committee (Defence) sat, looking at the report of Kasese and we identified that around 70 per cent of our report has already been overtaken by events.

Interjection by Speaker: Hon. Olanya you are violating the rule against anticipation. No, no, no Hon Olanya, take your seat.
Felix Okot Ogong, Dokolo South: Madam Speaker, I am having a problem because the matter of Kasese raised a lot of concern to this Parliament and the entire country. On Tuesday, Parliament extensively discussed the matter and several proposals were laid in this House.

It would not be okay for Parliament to extensively debate this matter, come to almost a conclusion and then leave it hanging yet the situation is not very clear. It is important that as Parliament, we come up with a position and a way forward. First of all, the matter in court has not been given to Parliament. As Parliament, how do we intervene in the matter to arbitrate?

Abbas Agaba, Kitagwenda County: The dilemma is that we are debating as if the conflict is now waiting for what comes from Parliament. The recent information I have from Kasese is that the conflict is metamorphosing into a different turn altogether.

We will appreciate the uniqueness of Kasese. Politically, that it is one of the few districts totally represented by FDC and they have their own right. But the current situation is that the NRM supporters are in danger.

There is a belief that the NRM supporters are part of the anti-Omusinga group and, therefore, being seen as part of the cause of the suffering of the king…. We would encourage the leaders of Kasese to lead the way in the peaceful existence of pacification of the current situation in Kasese to prevent the inter-people conflict. The more they make it political, the more they alienate the other groups…..

Beatrice Anywar, Kitgum Municipality: Madam Speaker, following what has happened in Kasese, as leaders of this House, I pray that we toe a very middle line. Leaders from Kasese early this week came crying in this House and we debated the issue. We have not concluded. 

Today, I have also heard a colleague say another section of the people are in danger. Literally, everybody in Kasese is insecure. My humble proposal, Madam Speaker, is that we give chance to dialogue.

We should encourage the leaders, the elders from Kasese and government to start sitting down to talk about what is happening and chart a way forward…The leaders of Kasese are crying with their people.

We are also crying with them and they are already angry and at a loss. It is our duty to make peace and encourage these people to talk in a tone of reconciliation to their people. As per now, they are actually traumatised and cannot really be in their real sense.

For us to keep on adding salt…., to me it doesn’t add up. I would want that as a House, we resolve that peace talking starts therein. We involve the leadership, elders and government. Let them come to the table and this is what happened in Northern Uganda. As much as people wanted to show power of the gun and they fight, the talking did the work.

Latif Ssebaggala, Kawempe North: (Abridged Speech) … First and foremost, arresting of Mumbere and other people and the killing of many people cannot solve the issue in Kasese. What is required of us; let us request the assistance from our leaders especially the Inter-Religious Council.

People of Kasese belong to various religious denominations and I think that is a unifying factor. Let us put our political parties aside and get in people who can come in. If the government spokesperson is not toeing the line of peace and reconciliation, don’t expect others to toe that line.

In as much as we appeal to our local leaders, we must also request the government to listen and ensure that whatever statement they are committing, let them not add insult to injury. Let them walk the talk. All of us who come from institutions where we cherish our cultural leaders, I can’t imagine a situation as I am talking now when my king of Buganda is in prison.

These cultural institutions cut across. The government is the one in charge of what’s going on in as far as the arrest of Mumbere is concerned. Let us go down, swallow our pride and say, yes we have committed mistakes on either side. Now, the way forward is this; let Mumbere be out and we then begin on the reconciliation and move forward and forget the past.

Francis Mwijukye, Buhweju County: The situation in Kasese is still very bad. I saw on TV women crying that they don’t know where their husbands are. They last saw them on Friday [November 24]. In the circumstances, rather than tell leaders to keep quiet, I was interacting with the Kasese leaders and they are saying they cannot talk if the king is still in prison.

I also heard that from people in Kasese. So, I would recommend that the king is released on court bond so that then talks can begin when he is in his palace. Otherwise, we are going to pretend but it will happen again and then we shall have to come here and talk and start saying, “If we had known….”

Herbert Ariko, Soroti Municipality: Madam Speaker, we have heard that the leaders of Kasese whom we know were elected, have a certain view on this matter. They are exuding pain; they feel dejected; they feel to have been left out. On the other hand, we have statements from the security organisations trying to explain their position on the matter.

But more so, we are tending to have a view especially in this House, as though this is a matter between the ruling political party and the people of Kasese and that is making parliament to miss the point….

Speaker Kadaga: Honourable members, I think you should desist from creating impressions. We have not done any other work this week because we felt the issue of Kasese was important. It is not about parties. It is because those are citizens of this country. What I have been appealing to you since Tuesday is, can we find a way forward which will help our people?

Matthias Mpuuga, Masaka Municipality: (Abridged Speech) …The committee of Defence, having done part of its work, we do not know yet officially, the extent of what it was able to establish in lieu of the eventual activities of last week.

We had almost moved to the centre to suggest that on top of the job done by the committee, Parliament, being an independent arbiter in this matter, can have its own committee work with the committee of Defence to try and particularly work out these issues of the last few days because they seem to be the missing link in having a committee report.

Atkins Katusabe, Bukonzo West: Madam Speaker, the committee on Defence has had extensive interactions with, first of all, our king; with us the leaders and with our community. I remember when my colleagues, the other five MPs, were in Kampala and I was in the village.

My colleagues requested me to find time for the committee. That day, I was burying my aunt but I had to drive to Kasese. This is what I heard from the chairperson on the committee. We gave them the build-up to all of this and the committee chairperson said, “You are fear mongers” and my point of order is one…(Speaker interjects stating that he is debating in anticipation of the committee report)

What I am trying to say is we have had the committee before. I think the committee requires some further reinforcement in form of a select committee and that should not be ignored, Hon Speaker.

Stephen Mukitale, Buliisa County: (Abridged speech) …I am a strong supporter of functional committees. Can we make our committee (Defence) relevant?

In the last Parliament, the committee did not present that report. … What stops a committee from expressly requesting in the order paper to at least in the interim present the old report which the Speaker you directed to save the old work?

Nothing stops the leadership of the committee from presenting the findings… My proposal is we should demand from the committee to use its mandate and make a presentation immediately on the floor of the old report and the new one in view of the few days’ happenings.

What are interim proposals by the committee which government can do immediately? But my appeal to government is let Mumbere be put under house arrest in his palace as we negotiate and sort the situation.

Jovah Kamateeka, Mitooma Woman: (Abridged speech) …Honourable Speaker, we are dealing with a historical problem. The committee went and did thorough investigations and I believe that they would be in position to understand the current happenings better, having the historical background and findings that they came up with. I also believe that our receiving the findings would help us come up with proper solutions.

It is very important that we empower existing institutions. For example, the Uganda Human Rights Commission has the mandate to sensitise our people about their civic duties and responsibilities. Why would any well-thinking Ugandan shoot at police on duty? But these people have been misled by political opportunitists.

William Nzoghu, Busongora North: Madam Speaker, it is a pity that we are here so that the Rwenzori can regain peace. It is crystal clear that actually, it is the police and army who attacked the palace.

Rt. Hon Speaker, is it, therefore, in order for the Hon Member to lie to the people of Uganda that actually it is the royal guards which provoked the police and army when it was the army and police who attacked the palace?

Margaret Muhanga, Burahya County: This parliament is bogging down itself on things which have a long history and we shall never debate this issue to conclusion. The matter of Rwenzururu started in Bundibugyo, it moved to Bunyangabu in Kabarole, it came to Burahya to my constituency.

Even last week, there were attacks in Burahya. So, when we are talking about Kasese and not thinking about any other place where this has been happening, we are not actually looking at the root cause of the problem. I have met leaders in my constituency on the mountain areas.

I have talked them out of carrying pangas and spears and fighting the police and army. In this House, I have never heard anyone condemning the militia for killing the army. I have never heard anyone condemning the militia for killing the police. All of us are simply talking about… (point of order raised by Atkins Katusabe, Bukonzo West MP)

Atkins Katusabe, Bukonzo West: Madam Speaker, I am a man and I think if I was not one, probably, I would have broken down….. We are here, six MPs from Kasese.

You have heard none of us promote violence. I got a call in the morning that some of our brothers and sisters from the NRM side were trying to own up, saying that we have humiliated their king and murdered them and our supporters (FDC) were saying, can we do something and we said, “You can’t do it. We are one. We love our country. You cannot begin retaliating”. 

And that is the message we have been giving out there and if that was not the case, Madam Speaker, there would be blood all over Kasese. So, Madam Speaker, is my Honourable sister in order to insinuate that it is us, the leaders fanning and promoting the violence, and we would never try to bring about peace in this particular situation?

Speaker Kadaga: (Abridged speech) … Honourable members, we cannot diminish the work of the committees especially when we are the ones who asked them to do our work.

But I am willing to augment the committee with additional members. We have done this before. Public Finance Management Act we had two committees…I will deal with the issue of management but I want you to agree that we add five more members from different committees to support the committee on Defence.

My only worry is, when do they report? If they are going to complete the recent events, it may require them to go, not just sit in Kampala…and that they report before we close for Christmas.