Minister Nakiwala, PS Bigirimana differ over youth funds

Last Wednesday, officials from the ministry of gender, labour and social development were at parliament to brief the gender committee about the status of the implementation of the youth livelihood programme, among other things.

The ministry team comprised Herbert Kabafunzaki, the state minister for labour, employment and industrial relations, permanent secretary Pius Bigirimana and Peace Mutuuzo, the state minister for gender and culture, among others.

However, Nakiwala Kiyingi, the state minister for youth and children affairs, was absent. Beatrice Atim Anywar, the committee vice chairperson, chaired the meeting that day and JOSEPHINE NAMULOKI captured the proceedings.

Anywar: Somebody was whispering here that we are dealing with the issues of the youth and that there is a youth minister. Next time you come, we need this minister because the youth are here and they have questions.

Bigirimana: I have this to say; there is a national steering committee which is supposed to sit twice a year but no such a meeting has been held. I want to be on record that there is a youth minister and that minister is not supervised by me as PS, no.

This youth minister was given a portfolio and if she has chosen not to call you I think this is a matter that should be asked. I mean, she is the one to answer these questions but she knows very well there is this program document we refer to. This program document was given to her.

She knows very well she is supposed to chair these meetings but I cannot force her to chair the meetings if she is not interested. (MPs laugh)
And, therefore, that is really not a question we can answer because she knows very well that today we are here. Now I can’t do much about that.

The second question was to do with the technical working committee. When did we last meet? I want to tell this committee that the last meeting was on February 10, 2017. It is true that this technical committee sits every month with the exception when there are other intervening factors.

I chair this working committee because in the past there has not been a director of social protection; so, this committee is composed of different technical people from different ministries that are related to this program. The minutes are available on a file we can produce.

Another issue raised is that on 27th I wrote a letter suspending funding to some districts. Yes, it is here and I have no apology for writing this letter. In fact, I am even going ahead to implement. Now you are asking, which authority?

My authority is derived from article 164 of the constitution. I am an accounting officer and I am answerable to parliament for all the resources given to the ministry. If I see that the resource given to the ministry is being passed over to the beneficiaries without following the regulations, I have got authority to suspend it. I don’t have to consult anybody.

Anywar: Is your minister aware?
Bigirimana: Of course they are aware. I do these things in consultation with the ministry but when I take action, I take it as accounting officer. The second instrument where I derive my authority from is the treasury accounting instructions. The third instrument which gives me the authority is this document here which was approved by cabinet and parliament.

So, I think to really summarize suspension is founded on these instruments. Secondly, the suspension has not been effected but the letter was saying that I am writing to inform you of continued failure.

Which means, those districts which have showed some progress and those which have not recovered funds as a result of draught for example some districts were affected by and, therefore, the youth groups could not harvest, we take consideration.

There are some groups which had kept like pigs, swine fever affected them in some districts. There were also some diseases which affected chicken all that were put into consideration. But where there has been outright theft, fraud, embezzlement, negligence, recklessness, etc, I am sorry Hon. Members we shall take action and we shall not apologize.

Alex Ndeezi: We need an explanation. When you hear people say this one knows it’s up to her you know there is a problem. The problem is lack of teamwork, coordination and poor working environment. The normal way is to say: my colleague has not come because this and that.

But if you hear one saying: she knows, she will come, she should have come, know it is very serious. When elephants fight, it’s the grass that suffers. This may impact on service delivery. We are a committee charged with oversight.

When you see the ministry or departments stepping on each other or not in harmony, know there is a very big problem. My request chairperson is that you try to get time to correct it with the senior minister, ministers of state and the PS. We want peace, we want people to work in a coordinated way, people working in harmony to be able to deliver services, otherwise we are scared.

Anywar: We don’t want to speculate that may be there is a problem. We want to know why the colleague didn’t come.

Jackson Mbaju: An explanation was given that maybe she is not getting the information but the PS has said he wants to be on record. It means the minister does not want to attend or there is a problem within the ministry.

And when you see a PS coming to speak for or against a minister when the other colleagues who are ministers are present and there is a principle of collective responsibility as ministers who are in the ministry not responding, it’s not a simple problem that this committee should just bypass. I am in agreement with Hon Ndeezi that these people must harmonise and work together as a team. We don’t want to hear what we have heard.

Kabafunzaki: The insinuation comes as a basis of that story where members are assuming because of hearsay that we are in conflict but I want to put it on record that we are not in conflict and nobody has come out to say we are in conflict. This committee should have categorically asked why the minister is not around but I think it is unfair for the committee to put judgment that we must harmonize.

Anywar: Let me make it right that the committee which you are appearing before has not passed any judgment. There was sentiment by a member of the committee but it is not the position of this committee. Please honourable minister, give us the facts.

Mutuuzo: These are the facts. Today, there was cabinet in the morning and we had something to present. So, we are four ministers and two (honurable Janat Mukwaya and honurable Nakiwala) are in cabinet to present something to do with cultural institutions amendment law.

And we want to say that the next time Nakiwala will be present in this committee. Teamwork is being built and we are continuing to improve the ways of delivering services. The demands are enormous in the ministry; so, we divide ourselves. When I am not around, someone else can represent me. There is no conflict in the ministry and we are working together.
 
Anywar: We don’t want to speculate. The committee will write to the youth minister specifically to come and answer issues of the youth. We shall also invite all the ministers and if there is disharmony, they must know that this is a big ministry with various sectors which need each minister to be answerable.

The youth MPs [Mwiine Mpaka (Western)] are here asking questions, which are not answered but could be ably answered by the minister [Nakiwala].

Nakiwala hits back at Bigirimana

Later in the day, Nakiwala told The Observer at parliament that improvement  of the youth livelihood program cannot be handled by Bigirimana alone.

The Observer: You skipped the committee meeting and in your absence the PS told MPs you did not communicate to your colleagues within the ministry that you were not to appear. He also said you do things independently…

Nakiwala: It is cabinet day and according to the cabinet statute, the cabinet supersedes any other arrangement elsewhere. So, I am not pretty much conversant why programs overlap. Secondly, I have no issue at all with the PS. If anything happened to the contrary, I am not aware.

The youth livelihood program existed before me and I believe it will even exists even after me but it is very clear the minister has mandate, the permanent secretary has mandate and so do the other officers and even  the beneficiaries have their mandate.

So, the anomaly I realized is when someone is the author of the program is an implementer, the supervisor, the broadcaster, and you go to the news and broadcast your achievements. So, the program itself does not have natural checks and balances.

So, if anybody in my capacity comes out to supervise and follow up government programs, then there is a natural clash with the author of the program who has the patent and etc.

To me, I think that is natural clash but what you should know is that the money should fall to the right beneficiaries, the young people. I have heard the young people being taken to jail. That is why I moved out to find out the truth because unlike other ministries, we deal with people. We don’t deal with roads, we don’t deal with buildings, we deal with people. That is why it is called the people’s ministry.

I don’t have to rely on papers when the people are there. So, I go out to find out from them and many have told me they didn’t get the money. So, I am still finding out what it [youth livelihood programme] is all about; I am still confused.

The youth are saying the money was just paper work. So, let anybody come out with proof; we just need proof, that is it. I am not an implementer but he is. My work is to ensure that whatever is there is nothing but the truth.

The Observer: Is the problem technical?

Nakiwala: No, certainly not because for me I tell you that what I discovered is not true. So, what else is he alleging?

The Observer: Do you have conflicts in the ministry?

Nakiwala: I mentioned that and I was loud and clear that is what happened and that is what is happening.

The Observer: The PS said you are not supervised by him and you do things independently…

Nakiwala: Certainly he is happy when I am not around because for me I always speak the truth. Now do you have the contacts of the people there in that book? Do you know Nakiwala Kiyingi of this telephone number got Shs 10 million?

I mean those compound things. For me I am a lawyer by profession. I went with my Bible and challenged the young people until I was called to order. I said come on what is in reality is very different.

So, to me it is not like someone is here or there because he knew today is a cabinet day. How could he schedule a meeting on a cabinet day? And if he knew I was important for this meeting ,he should have made sure that it happens on the day when I am around and still get that book, go to an area ask. Simple. They will tell you that is a nightmare.

I know something has been done like getting the message across the country because it is now common knowledge there is that kind of money. But what I am saying is that the core principles do not measure.

So, we are looking at the impact because we have similar organisaitons, we have Caritas, we have Plan International, we have Child Africa. They are doing the same things we are doing. They have youth livelihood and probably they have less quarters than we do. So, how come that their impact is felt?

You can pass somewhere you see a signpost the youth livelihood program then you find that really they have done a lot. The impact is there. The impact of the church, for example, is there.

So, we are saying it is not a question of saying we add, we add, but what has the little done?

When you sample out the beneficiaries of the youth livelihood programme, you find that everybody is saying we participated in lessons, we were photographed, we did this. But in actual sense some of the photos were of participants in the process of getting the money but in the end they didn’t get.

Now there are contradictory media statements where one says: I will publish ministry’s statement and you say well done. Then the same media publishes things like: ‘From today, 80 per cent of the districts did not get the money because they didn’t pay back.’ It is quite contradictory.

If you are not paying back, what does it mean? And you say those who did not pay will not get again…but where is that money they got?

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