Retired assistant Anglican Bishop of Kampala, Dr Zac Niringiye, has said religious leaders must ask for forgiveness from Ugandans for keeping quiet for so long.
Now an activist, Niringiye campaigned for free and fair elections in 2016 and was one of the architects of an attempt to bring the opposition together under The Democratic Alliance. Baker Batte Lule spoke to him. Excerpts:-
You have been silent since the 2016 election. Where have you been?
I made a commitment to work for a just society and governance, to push back against those who steal from us; those who abuse power. It’s a lifelong commitment. You remember the day after elections the violence that was unleashed against us was unprecedented.
Truth be told, the promise by [President] Museveni that he was going to deal with the opposition, also had an impact on the work that we do. We have seen that in civil society and political parties. There was disarray.
I also took off time to rest; I was exhausted. I used this time to reflect. You might have seen my book, Uganda Today, Crisis and Hope for Rebirth. It represents what I think and what I stand for and what the future needs to be.
But the man you are fighting against never takes time off, he is always in campaigning mood…
Elections in this country don’t work, they have never worked. I have always argued that Museveni has never contested any election because when he comes in, he has no respect for his competitors. There is no way you can go for a contest when you have no respect for the other team. He neither wins nor loses because those categories apply to when there is a competition.
Prior to 2016, we tried to ensure that there is competition. Absolutely 2016 was not a competition; the entire computer system was compromised. We have evidence that Museveni stole that election. Now that he knows that he has used up all the tricks, and the Constitution has caught up with him, it was necessary for him to engineer the process to remove age limits. It’s all about him; he has said it countless times.
People say ‘you are obsessed with Museveni,’ but he is everywhere, what are we supposed to do? What the country needs to do is to come together and say, no, this must stop.
Some say the church is complicit in the mess when it accepts gifts from the president like cars he gives to newly elected bishops…
I think that analysis is correct. Museveni used religious leaders to fight previous governments. He understands the power of religious leaders in the country because of their influence in the society.
I will also tell you that religious leaders are vulnerable because we are a very poor population. The offerings in the church are not that big. It’s true that at the time of the consecration of a bishop one of the biggest budget items is a vehicle. And it’s true also that Museveni discovered that this is one way of him buying into this loyalty.
When I was in the House of Bishops, there was a discussion I was part of, arguing that there wasn’t a problem for bishops to receive donations of cars from government because after all they are serving the country in a wider sense. That when the church has development projects, the people benefit.
We demanded that there be a budget for this and a very transparent process by which this money is given to the various leaders. Of course, this was rejected by Museveni. He didn’t say no I will not do it. He simply said we shall consider this.
Should the process be transparent, then it’s no longer in his hands. So, the vulnerability of religious leaders to the abuse of power by this regime is acknowledged. But it’s not only religious leaders but all our civic leaders. Anybody of any significance falling sick and needs medical attention you know where the decision is taken. All the scholarships moved from ministries to State House; so, the state has been personalised.
We religious leaders have let down this country because we didn’t speak out loud and clear. Let me be very clear, UJCC [Uganda Joint Christian Council] was loud and clear that the removal of presidential term limits was a danger to the country. But there has been no consistency. Suppose the Church of Uganda, the Roman Catholic Church, the Muslim fraternity had remained consistent in opposing these machinations…
Where do the Museveni gifts leave your moral capacity to challenge him?
I agree that that creates a credibility gap for us religious leaders. It is going to be a very huge gap for us to plug. But as I said to you, time comes when you must say, yes, we all fell short, let’s pull our pieces. We have all been part of this mess. That’s what is in the Christian book and in my book we talk about repentance when you recognise that you have done wrong.
I hope religious leaders can one day say, hey good people, forgive us we didn’t realise that by accepting these gifts we were leading the country into trouble. Amama Mbabazi [former prime minister and NRM secretary general] makes a very good example; he led the push for the removal of term limits but more recently he said he believed out of principle that what he was doing was good for the country. He now regrets.
Let’s together rise and commit ourselves to a stronger moral ground to be able to say never again do we accept that these things are done to us. You know that Uganda is being protested as an entity; you hear about the Yiira republic, the Nile republic, these divisions also began to reflect in our religious groupings.
My own church should be ashamed that a lot of the elections around bishops is based around tribal/ethnic grounds. We should be able to say forgive us bishops that we have driven our church in this direction. That is the only way to recapture the moral ground.
The highlight of 2017 was the removal of the presidential age limits and also extension of tenure of members of parliament from five to seven years…
There has emerged media self- censorship. I offered to speak but media houses kept on telling me that, we can’t host you Bishop Zac. Civil society organisations or even other fraternity groups never wanted to associate with me. You will not believe this, in 2017, I went to attend a UJCC plenary session and my own leaders led by leaders in my own church said I was uninvited.
This censorship of certain characters is one of the reasons I have been quiet. But secondly, what else is there to be said? You shouldn’t be surprised by the amount of money that was flowing and the amount of force that was used. There were also back-door negotiations by some MPs on what was their cut in the deal.
It was very, very unfortunate. What happened was the culmination of the total breakdown of the moral fabric of our political leaders. What happened had nothing to do with our country but only and only one man, Yoweri Museveni. It was very tragic for the country.
In the aftermath of that parliamentary decision, we saw Museveni coming out tough on religious leaders.
Museveni will always find a way of discrediting anybody who tries to tell him he is taking a wrong direction. This whole idea that [he doesn’t] baptise, so I don’t also get involved in politics is disingenuous because we have evidence to the contrary.
We have seen him appointing religious leaders to political office. He is happy when religious leaders engage in partisan politics on his side. Religious leaders were unanimous in opposing the lifting of age limits. They ably performed their role as the conscience of the state. It wasn’t a surprise that he came after them. I have seen it when they tried to undermine my work by saying I lost my way in getting into politics; but our lives are political.
Archbishop Cyprian Kizito Lwanga is decrying recruitment of clergy as state spies and fears assassination… Are you worried?
When you have a rogue state like the one we have today, they will do all sorts of things to entrench those in power. It should not surprise anybody. It’s unbelievable that they are spying on people that are not a danger to national security.
I have suffered it and I can tell you people give reports; whether in Kampala diocese or even what is discussed in the House of Bishops. Some religious leaders give information without realising that it has security value for regime survival.
Where do you see Uganda headed?
Ugandans must choose to redirect our country. Those of us who are civic leaders must mobilise our communities to say we deserve a better future.
You have seen the breakdown in security. Criminality is spreading. That’s why I firmly believe in the national dialogue that the IRC [Inter-Religious Council] is working towards. I’m grateful that there are some people in government who seem to see that this is the answer; we must negotiate our future. Uganda must be renegotiated in order for it to survive as a country.
Communities of this country must have a sense that this Uganda can work for all of us. The current Uganda that only works for Museveni must be left to die, or even killed. I don’t see any other way out of this.
I hope the political actors will be able to negotiate a transition that ensures that Museveni and his cronies are safe because they are Ugandans and that there won’t be revenge. Like South Africa’s Bishop Desmond Tutu said, without forgiveness there is no future.
But do you think [Museveni] can negotiate himself out of power?
We are not going to plead with him. Ugandans must have this happen. There must be conditions to push Museveni to accept a transition. A study has just been done by Kituo cha Katiba that the whole country is calling for national dialogue but the conditions are not ripe for it to happen because of the intransigence of Museveni and the team in power.
As Ugandans, we must push Museveni and his team to the negotiating table; that is the hard work, it is risky business. He must realise that the only way for him is a national dialogue.
bakerbatte@observer.ug