PHILLIP OBWINY is a former Cranes defender and played for the likes of Express FC and SC Villa. He shared his life story with Simon Kasyate, the host of Capital FM’s Desert Island Discs programme.
Good evening and welcome to the programme!
Good evening, Simon. Thank you for inviting me. First of all, I want to thank people for whatever they are doing. I also say to those who are sick, for them to recover. We are sorry, we wish them a good day.
You always greet everyone, Phillip: it is like you are saying a prayer to God!
You know you always have to greet those who have had a good day, those who are not feeling well, you tell them sorry. That is how life is.
You had a wonderful career in football and that is where we all know you. But who is Phillip Obwiny?
Phillip Obwiny was born in Jinja in 1974. I am 42 years old. My late parents are Sebastian Emojong and Teopista Nyabur. I have lived my entire life in Kampala. I am an Itesot but unfortunately I don’t know the language, but it is not our problem because we grew up here. If I speak Luganda, people can’t tell that I am an Itesot…
Let’s first go back to this home of Sebastian: were you the first or last born?
I am the fourth-born of six. We have only one girl.
Ehhh, so you almost had half of a football team at home!
Unfortunately my brothers did not play football that much. Only my elder brother tried but later left football. He is called George Obecha. He played for Lugazi. And people thought that I am [older] because I started earlier and I was [more] well-known than him.
So, at Shimoni, what kind of kid were you?
Almost all young boys play football, or kick at something. You play not because you think it will help you in future and become a professional player, it is just a kind of game for boys. We used to just play football.
Tell us more about Shimoni.
I started my P1 at Green Valley, it was around Kisekka market.
Where were you living?
We were living on Buganda road flats… we used to go to Nakasero grounds, Kyaggwe grounds [to play football].
What kind of parents did you have?
My mother was a housewife while my father was a civil servant. He worked in the ministry of health, finance, lands, agriculture. So, they were good parents and we were not bad children.
Plays Hero by Enrique Iglesias
I remember one time when you scored against Ghana. How did it feel?
It feels so good, especially if you are a defender. And it was not a set piece; it was a goal from normal/open play.
Try to refresh our minds on how the goal came about.
I was playing right-back. Then I started the move from defence, I came passing one-two, going forward. Eventually I was near the goal, hit the ball and it went inside.
Imagine the Ghanaians had the likes of Samuel Kuffour, who was playing for Bayern Munich then! They had very strong players in big leagues. But in football, if you are prepared, you can always get a result [against any opponent].
Let’s go back to Shimoni. Did you ever play football for your school team?
During our time, in primary school there was what they called junior. There was what they called intermediate and there was what they called open. The open was for the big boys; intermediate, they would get a stick, measure.
So, I started playing in P4, I was in junior Shimoni team. Then they realized I had the quality and was allowed to play in the intermediate concurrently. So, I started playing, as a number eleven/left-winger.
How did they pick you to be on that team?
There were inter-class competitions and then they would start selecting just as it is done in big clubs; if you want to get players, you call as many as you want and then you can make say six against six and they play. Then you start picking the good ones.
Didn’t your continued involvement is sports affect your academic performances?
Of course in life, everybody has their own gift. We can’t all do the same thing.
That is true. But you see when we are starting out in school, they bundle us together to read hard and pass exams.
Yes. All parents want their children to excel in academics but eventually as time goes on, everyone knows where they fall.
So, did you finish primary school?
Yes I finished primary and went to Old Kampala SS and did my secondary from S1 to S4 before I went to Kibuli SS for my A-level.
In Old Kampala, you continued with football?
Yes I played. That is the time I joined the school team of Old Kampala, I found there Umar Ssennoga, Deo Sserwadda, Kefa Kisala. They were ahead of me in class but I joined.
Of course when you are in S1, you feel shy playing with those big boys but if you have the potential, they will see it. They just saw me folding my trouser and started playing. They said ‘ehhh this ka-boy knows football’. Then they gave me shoes. I used shoes for the first time.
Kibuli must have loved to take you on because it was a footballing school at the time.
Yes, Kibuli was a footballing school. Those days there was Kibuli, Lubiri, Kololo, Kitovu, Lubaga. All those schools were good. Players from these schools had teams.
You could find a team like Kibuli was like an entire football club, not a school team. Most players in these schools were also playing for super league clubs. By the time I was at Kibuli, I was also playing for Express. So, we had players from Nsambya, KCC…
At what point did you go into club football?
First of all when I was in Old Kampala, there was this late Gaige who wanted to take me to SC Villa. By that time the likes of Majid [Musisi], [Paul] Hasule were there.
I feared! In fact I disappeared. So, he met me the second time and said ‘you boy I wanted to take you to Villa and disappeared. What is wrong with you?’ He said ‘now I am taking you to Express’. I accepted. He took me there, I met there the [Isaac] Nkaadas, George Ssemwogerere, the [Kennedy] Lubogos.
Was this during school time or holidays?
At the school. When I was at Kibuli, they used to give us time. Like you leave at 5pm and go for training and then you come back at about 7pm.
Plays Lady in Red by Chris De Burgh
Phillip, you are at Kibuli, but also earning some money from Express: how were you able to balance books with the new-found fame?
Balancing these things depends on how you live your life. I had to live a humble life because that is where you go astray. You have to know what you want. I live a humble life and that is why I managed to play for a long time.
At what point in life did you actually realize that football was going to be one of the major income-earners in your life?
1993/94 when I joined Express.
What class were you?
I was in S6. Because you know those big clubs, what they want are results. You have to train well, play well. They are paying you, they were paying for my home [rent].
You mean you had already left your parents’ home?
By the way, I lost my parents in S4.
Both at the same time?
No, my mother first and my dad died when I was in S5. The chairman of Express then decided that I get a home and they were paying. Because when we were staying at Buganda road flats, those were houses for civil servants. When my parents died, we had to leave.
All of us left, we found a house and the club started paying. I was the one earning money, because my siblings were still young. I used to spend most of my money paying for my sister [to go] to school.
My elder brother went away and got a job. So, I lived a humble life. There was no way I could leave by siblings because I was the only one earning. I had to study and at the same time look after them.
After A-level, did you proceed to the university or you concentrated on football?
After S6, I joined Nakawa [National College of Commerce] but eventually the tuition was too much. I couldn’t manage because I had so many responsibilities. I left and didn’t complete. I went into football fulltime.
At which club were you then?
I was still at Express. I left Express after 1995 when we had just taken the double.
Remind us of that time of the double.
It felt good. My first season with Express, we won the Kakungulu Cup. In the second season, we won the league. We also played up to the semi-finals in the Africa club championship and were eliminated by Orlando Pirates of South Africa. They beat us 1-0 in South Africa and drew 1-1 in Kampala. That is the time I left Express and I joined Villa.
How did you join The Cranes?
As I started playing for Express, the good thing with football, it does not take long to see that somebody is good. Everybody saw that I was playing well and I was called for the national team in 1994.
Those days they used to write in the newspapers the names of the people they have called. My first international game was against Ethiopia, we beat them 4-0 at Nakivubo.
And your first goal?
I can’t recall. But I scored many goals. You know our database was very poor at the time. You can’t even tell how many games you played for the national team, how many goals you scored or how many cards you got. There is nowhere to get them.
Plays From This Moment On by Shania Twain
There must have been that time when you had to travel out of the country: the first time on a plane, because of football!
I was in Express and we were going to play Al-Merreikh in Sudan. It felt good to be in a plane, getting a passport. For the first time you are sitting in a plane, they are serving you, everything is good.
Life was sweet. So, we went to Sudan and they beat us 1-0. When they came here, we beat them 2-1 but still they advanced due to goal difference. It was a sad moment.
During this time, playing for the national team, did you feel you had a burden of representing the entire country with everyone counting on you?
Of course every footballer would love to play for the national team. Because it is the highest achievement in football. People come in large numbers regardless of them supporting rival clubs.
You know during our time, that rivalry between Express and Villa was too much. But if you are in the national team, they all come and support you. It really feels good….For players, we have our own teams we support although it is very difficult for someone to come out and admit but inside you feel it.
So, you can play for Villa when in your heart you support Express?
Yes. But remember it is Villa paying you, it is Villa or Express looking after you. So, you give all your best to the team paying you. The more you play well, the more you are loved by those fans and officials…
One time you left Villa and we were told you had gone to Turkey for trials and things did not turn out well…
Yes, yes, I went there because my first trial was in Portsmouth but you know those days officials were so selfish. They never wanted to release any player. They wanted you to be in their club.
Would they hold onto your passport?
No, if they say you are not going, you can’t go. Because you had to go with documents showing that you are coming from this club or they have to give you the release. So, for them they never wanted to let their best players to go for trials.
Even international trials?
Yes. Because me I just ran away. I went to Nairobi, from there I went to, in fact I was supposed to go with Fred Tamale, but he found me there. Even me who went earlier, I had gone late. They had told us to join them during pre-season but we went when they had come back already.
So, in their minds they said maybe, you know they cannot tell you directly that you are a fool, but you know that you people are disorganized. How can I invite you this time and you come at this time? So, they let us train for about two days and then they said we shall let you know. We came back….so, it was their trade during our time; clubs never wanted to let their players leave.
Which means what would have been a glorious career for you was somehow suffocated?
Yes. Because look at ex-players and today’s players.
Honestly you guys were incredible.
But we never made it. Why? Because football administrators were not focused. For them, they were selfish. They wanted you to play for their club and let Express stay on top while you, afterwards, where are you going to be?
During all these ‘footballing’ years, did you never get anyone of the opposite sex who caught your eye? Are you married, for example?
I am not married but I have my lady. I have four children.
From the same woman?
Yes.
And you say you are not married?
Legally!
Four beautiful children from an incredible lady, for me that is marriage.
Ahhh, it is not marriage.
You mean her parents don’t know you?
They do, but informally, not legally.
Legally to mean what?
Legally is like an introduction, not going to church.
What is stopping you from going to church?
We are planning. Everything is in process.
Plays It Must Have Been Love by Roxette
When did you retire from national football?
1994.
Why did you leave? Had you grown so old?
I had not grown so old. But you know these things of politics of football.
There is politics in football?
Yes. You are on the national team, somebody doesn’t like you, without any genuine reason. [They have someone they want to fix there]. You have some issues with this coach. The way I left the national team, I think that to me was unfair. Because this issue of [excessive] watching of television I don’t think it can make you be kicked out.
Were you that addicted to TV?
In fact we were in [Ssekagya] Ibra’s room. Sports View hotel. We were so many players, seated there watching TV. Then the coach comes in…
Which coach?
This Egyptian [Mohammad Abbas]. He comes in, there are so many players, because we were not in our room, me and Joseph Mutyaba. We were in another person’s room watching TV, because we were a bit senior, older, the next morning they say you guys are undisciplined, you were watching TV past midnight and we were kicked out just. That is how we left the national team.
Kicked out indefinitely, or suspended?
Kicked out. They told us go out, that was the end of our career on the national team.
You couldn’t appeal?
How? And we were saying, if we were a group of players, why did they expel only the two of us. They had something behind, maybe these guys are senior, old; so, we no longer need them. But for me it is not about age, but service.
In football you can be older but when playing better than young boys. It is about performance. Sometimes a young boy can play better than the senior one. It is about performance. If this guy is young but performing well, give him a chance. If an older guy is playing well, give him a chance too. So, we left the national team and concentrated on our clubs.
At this same time, had you realized that you are growing older and started planning for life after football?
Of course if you are doing any sport, you are using you body. As time goes on, you weaken. So, every sport has a timeframe. So, you have to plan for life after.
Were you paid as handsomely as these people we read about in newspapers these days?
It was not all that much but we used to plan for the little. For me what I had to do, the little money I got I had to first build a house, then afterwards you set up a business. For me I have my business.
What business?
I have a hardware shop in Kibuye.
What is your favourite food?
I eat beans with meat with posho and rice.
How do you wash it down?
With juice, soda, water.
Any regrets in football?
That I did not make it to the professional ranks. But in football, at least I have got everything. I have carried enough trophies, I have got my house, I have my rental houses, I have my village home here in Bombo and now I have a business and wife and children.
What do you think of the current Cranes squad at Afcon?
We are playing for the sixth time in Afcon. Many people don’t know that. We have been there five times before. The squad at Afcon today is not bad, because the coach has been using the same squad for some time; he has just added a few. So, he knows all the players, and I think they are not bad players…Me I am happy that we qualified, regardless of any results at Afcon. If we play well, fine; if we don’t, it is okay.
If you were marooned on a desert island and were allowed to take one thing or person, what or who would you take?
My family.
Which Premier League club do you support?
Liverpool.
Plays My Heart Will Go On by Celine Dion
TRANSCRIPT: JOSEPH KIMBOWA
