On June 6, 2017, Erias Lukwago made a year since his re-election as Kampala city lord mayor.
In an interview at his office at City Hall, Lukwago talked to Abubaker Mayemba about the challenges of his first year, his relationship with opposition candidates and the 2015 controversial KCCA (Amendments) Bill, among other issues. Below are excerpts.
Has the first year in office been fair to you?
Fair, how? I work in a hostile environment. And the hostility comes from no one else apart from Yoweri Kaguta Museveni. He is the one masterminding all this and he only changes tactics.
My biggest challenge has been governance, like it was last time. The issue of impunity, the issue of institutional breakdown, issues of one man’s rule and basically that is it.
Museveni entrenched the one-man rule in Kampala, which has caused systems and institutional breakdowns and of course not respecting local leadership. We are not being given space to deliver the promises we made to the people because the political space is ever shrinking.
But your critics might say Museveni is not at City Hall. Why blame him?
He controls the state’s structure and he has used it with his NRM party to entrench the one-man rule. You think that doesn’t affect the functioning of the lord mayor here who serves under that system?
It certainly does because one, the budget appropriations are done by himself and he has cut the allocations from Shs 562bn to Shs 337bn this financial year.
He has brought here a minister [for Kampala, Beti Kamya] whom he has given overwhelming powers to overrun the institution, to stampede us here and to issue orders. For example, if you have a minister like Beti Kamya [Kampala minister], she makes orders to evict vendors from the Park Yard market and gives Nakivubo market to Ham [Hamis Kiggundu].
They unleash terror and bring in the police machinery and enforce it yet we [council] have taken a decision that the eviction is not in line with what we are supposed to be doing. They used the coercive machinery of the state to unleash terror and enforce whatever decisions they wanted. You think that doesn’t affect the functioning of the institution?
Mr Lord Mayor, it is clear that in the past term, one of your biggest challenges was working with Jennifer Musisi, KCCA executive director. What is your current relationship with Ms Musisi?
You see, I don’t discuss my individual relationship with the actors here at City Hall. That’s why I choose to focus on the source of the problem.
I told you he [Museveni] simply changes tactics and in the just-concluded elections, he blamed her [Musisi] for his poor performance in Kampala and on top of that, he brought Madam Beti Kamya and he gave her all the powers to decide whatever she wishes to be done in Kampala.
In turn, she [Kamya] also allocated herself the duty of championing Kisanja 2021. That’s what she said when she was with Museveni in Kawempe.
She said: “Come 2021, you will get 80per cent of the votes in Kampala. The Kisanja 2021 is intended to entrench a one-man rule and that is what Kamya is implementing here and she wants to use the institutional apparatus here to champion Museveni’s kisanja. Most of our efforts are geared towards thwarting her efforts to use the institution as an apparatus for Kisanja 2021 and that is what defines the battle. That’s the battle line we have.
Have you tried engaging in any reconciliation as an authority…?
You see the whole thing [reconciliation] stems from the spirit of that particular individual. Before you think of engaging her in reconciliation, what is her mission here?
I have heard this talk but what personal differences do I have with Madam Kamya that need to be sorted out? Have we quarrelled over something personal and are the differences personal, structural or political in nature?
If I’m for change and my platform is for defiance and I’m saying Museveni should go but Madam Kamya is saying come 2021 you will get 80 per cent, how will we reconcile that?
There’s a gap between the two and she is taking us back to the Idi Amin and Milton Obote days aimed at creating life presidency. I’m saying he [Museveni] should go and I’m saying you shouldn’t use the institution to champion that. Well, it can be within her right but she shouldn’t use KCCA to champion that. That is the crux of the matter.
The bill that you just re-called from parliament, could it have succeeded?
Certainly, you know this parliament is predominantly NRM and majority of the decisions, if not all, are made within the NRM caucus and who superintendents over that caucus? It’s Museveni.
So, if he is the author of this bill and he sponsored it, certainly he will stampede parliament and force it down their throats to see that they pass it. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is passed in its current form. We are saying, ultimately, you cannot overrun the sovereignty of Ugandans and that’s why we are insisting that the will of the people should reign supreme.
Why are you so much against the bill?
In the first place, it’s an affront on the Constitution and it tends to take away the will of the people. The guiding principle is that the people of Kampala should be in charge of their destiny and governance of Kampala.
They do it through the electoral process by electing their leadership and being in position to bring those leaders to account. Now you are trying to distort that system.
They are saying the minister should be the political head with executive powers as opposed to the current status where the lord mayor is the political head. How can you get a political appointee to be a political head of an electoral area like Kampala?
A political appointee who is not answerable to the people of Kampala but to the appointing authority, that is an absurdity and it doesn’t make sense. The lord mayor should be the political head and the minister, who is redundant, should be taken away.
How do you have two ministers to take charge of a small area like Kampala? The other issue is making provisions that take away the councillors’ powers to make policies or even play an oversight role but, rather, sit in council and make recommendations. The bill takes away powers to make monetary allocations yet as leaders, we are supposed to be in charge of our budget.
That is the only way we can effectively represent the people who elected us because you can take a decision on behalf of your electorates and account to them. But now you are being turned into an advisory council; but we are not appointed by the minister.
So, how do you get a body of elected leaders to be subordinate to a minister who is appointed? He who gives appointments will be the very person directing you on what to do. In other words, you are turning elected leaders into employees of the minister, which is totally unacceptable.
Do you think it is right for councillors to ask for salary increments?
It’s being used now as a political tool to cause confusion within the institution and the public domain. The minister has jumped onto that issue because she wants to use it as bait to get councilors to accept this obnoxious bill and also to derail the debate on the issues of this bill.
It’s a red herring of sorts, some kind of diversion tactic which comes at a time when we are not talking about the budget. I’m not sure if it’s provided for in this financial year’s budget.
Now the minister talks about a salary enhancement of 30 per cent out of the blue and at a time when you are called to discuss the amendment bill, and not necessarily finance issues. At this material time we are talking about the bill and you are expected to make a statement on the bill. That salary increment talk is a diversion.
How sure are you that councillors won’t be bought when the bill comes to council?
We took a decision as council; actually it was only one person who opposed the motion to have it withdrawn. The councillors are really solid and I’m confident they are still firm.
What is your view on the recent order by parliament that all beneficiaries of the ‘Golden Handshake’ return the money?
For me it wasn’t enough to say the money be returned. It’s a matter which tackles the moral turpitude of the individuals who received the money.
I think the honourable thing they should have done is to resign from whatever positions they hold. But since they did not do that, then I don’t think it was sufficient to say they refund the money.
Well, parliament recommended investigations to be conducted against particular individuals. Probably they were guided by principles of natural justice that “thou shall not be condemned unheard.”
I think a political decision ought to be taken. If Museveni really believed he was fighting for clean leadership and his policies don’t tolerate corruption, as he has always said, and you are caught on the wrong footing, you resign.
Drastic measures should have been taken but he’s silent on this and parliament has pronounced itself on the matter and has named individuals. He, I believe, takes the biggest blame because he is the political head. You ought to have realised that whatever he was doing wasn’t only illegal but evil.
You cannot dish out Shs 6bn in form of a handshake to civil servants who are entitled to a salary. So I think he should take the entire blame. If we had democracy, he should have resigned and that incident alone should have made him to say;
“No, I accept and to err is human but I feel I cannot continue holding onto the position of the head of state.” A fountain of honour to have indulged in things of that nature, I think he should have resigned but Uganda being a banana republic, that can obviously cannot happen.
You have a great relationship with FDC and independents. Currently, there are by-elections in Kyadondo East; who is your candidate?
Why would you want me to choose a candidate? Bobi Wine told you he doesn’t subscribe to any political party and I respect his views.
People have come out in their different formations to declare their support to various candidates. FDC, who are my good friends, chose Apollo Kantinti and I respect their decision, I don’t fault it. Bobi Wine chose to stand as an independent, so what is the problem?
There are claims that you support Bobi Wine because some of his posters have your face?
Would I stop anyone from using my face…? And maybe it’s because of the platform; Truth and Justice, the pressure group I head, decided to support Bobi Wine. Most of our team are supporting Bobi Wine and they formed a core team that supports him.
But I for one, I’m focusing on a bigger struggle and I wouldn’t want to be seen veering off the broader picture of liberating this country. Whatever the dynamics, I want to remain aligned with my colleagues in the struggle. I don’t want to see a situation where I clash with comrades in the struggle.
Those in FDC and Dr Besigye in particular because I still maintain he is the flag bearer of the forces of change and I respect him so much and I wouldn’t wish to be in any situation that would lead into confrontation with him. But I also respect the decision of the Truth and Justice members to support Bobi Wine.
Talking of political parties, I wonder too, what party does the lord mayor belong to? As we headed into the 2016 elections, you got misunderstandings with Norbert Mao…
I chose to remain an ordinary member and I don’t hold any leadership position in the Democratic Party. But do I have a choice?
I don’t hold any leadership position; so, I have no choice. What can I do in the circumstances? I don’t sit on NEC [National Executive Committee], neither do I hold any party organ position and I don’t coordinate any leadership position in the party.
I got flabbergasted with the wrangles in the party and was disillusioned and frustrated. I thought at one point I would be diverted, derailed from the main struggle and that is why I had to distance myself from party wrangles and keep my eyes focused on the national struggle.
Some divisional mayors are facing impeachment; how have you managed to keep your house clean?
Well, I enjoy a good relationship with my brothers in FDC, who are the majority here and I owe it to them that they have really been good to me.
The leadership of Mugisha Muntu, the people’s president Dr Kizza Besigye and the councillors themselves. They know what they want here, they are not shaken in their belief in the mission that brought them here, which is to champion the will of the people and majority of them are still focused.
They want to see change, they want to see a better Kampala, they want to see good governance and quality services. So, they are still focused on the mandate that was entrusted to them.
Even some of the councilors from NRM, with the exception of a few, majority work with me. They are focused. We have quality debates with these councilors, which is a good thing and it has kept the institution of KCCA stable and helped me navigate the murky waters.
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