Ramathan Ggoobi

Quick Talk talked to him recently about this and his passion for numbers…

What drives you to be a leading authority on the economy?

Right from the days when I sat in my first economics classes at Makerere, I realised there was a huge gap between what I saw in the society around me and what I was learning. I was inclined to believe many of the decisions people at home, strangers at a market, leaders in government were making were barely informed by economics.

Many people were not thinking like economists. I could hear almost everyone, including economists, emphasising things like mindset change, sensitization and mobilization as what were required to change society. I wondered why they thought fellow human beings were born with a “wrong” mindset that needed to be changed or that they needed to be “sensitized” or “mobilised” to do what they considered as the right mindset.

I had learnt in economics that human beings respond much more to either incentives or danger; sort of a combination of carrots and sticks. If, for example, government wants farmers across the country to adopt modern technologies of farming and/or ensure safe handling of food, the best way to achieve that should not be mindset change or sensitization.

I was also passionate about sharing the little economics I learned. I consider knowledge in the same way former US president Thomas Jefferson did: like a candle. When one candle lights another, it does not diminish the light of the first candle.

Several media houses and policymakers run to you for advice and analysis of the economy. Doesn’t it bore you sometimes when you are asked the same questions?

I do not get bored. As a teacher, I know that repetition standardizes human thought and helps to communicate more effectively. Indeed when I am asked about a common issue by journalists from different media houses, then it dawns on me that perhaps this is a critical issue that requires a correct analysis for the society. So, I invest in more thinking and/ or research.

How do you juggle life as a lecturer, consultant, author and economist?

I don’t know who said, ‘Choose a job you love, and you will never work a day in your life.’ I never do what I do not find fun doing. I have been offered jobs that pay more and I turned them down. I love teaching.

I often ask for more teaching load as some of my colleagues complain about theirs. I also love doing research; policy research intended to provide practical solutions to real-life problems. The secret in juggling the many trades lies not only in my ability to multitask but also willingness to trade off my social life.

Much of our productivity is squandered in unrewarding, yet costly social interactions – parties, random visits, bars, conversations just to keep in touch – and excessive leisure. Those are the things I have traded off since my teenage days.

What kind of life do you live privately?

I spend a simple life mainly at office and home. Music and sport occupy the few spare minutes I have in a day. Whenever I am home, I am listening to music or watching football, tennis, F1 or boxing.

I cannot stay in a private place for long when there is no music. From country to R&B, soul, pop, Afrobeat, Ugandan music, name it. As long as it is good music; not noise. Thankfully, my family is also into either music or sport. My car is also a moving music system.

How is the lockdown affecting you and your family?

Since these days we are living at work (which some people call working from home), my family is the happiest. Since the last lockdown, I have spent much of the time home. Before Covid-19, I used to return home late. Covid has also helped me to improve my work-life balance.

I do not take it for granted that I am among the lucky few Ugandans who continued to be paid even under lockdown. This ‘good anomaly’ also got me thinking about the inaptness of the current national income accounting system.

My teaching services showed up in Uganda’s GDP last year even when I did not teach during much of the year. But it showed up exactly the same way as it showed up in 2019. As far as knowing less about my family, they prefer to be kept out of my work life that has steadily grown public.

NSSF is granting benefits to Covid-19 patients in ICU. Is it even practical?

My view is that someone’s retirement savings should not be used to treat them when they are still working. Unfortunately, when this debate started last year during the first lockdown, many people wanted to have their money to spend it on food or pay health bills.

I opposed that idea then, and I still do oppose it. I would want to have these savings kept for me when I can no longer work or if I pass away, to pay for my children’s education. Government should treat me when I contract Covid-19. That is what governments everywhere are doing.

Recently, Daily Monitor misfired and announced you the new Finance minister. How did you receive the news?

I was actually on a radio talk show with the deputy secretary to the Treasury, Patrick Ocailap, when the Daily Monitor headline came out. Someone showed me the headline in the middle of the 7 pm to 8 pm programme. We continued with the programme.

I guess you received several congratulatory calls that day…

Right away, dozens of congratulatory messages started to hit my phone from many of my friends, colleagues and other people who know me. The 24 hours until the true list came out the following evening were quite interesting. I was trending on Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp groups, and radios.

I appreciate the support expressed by people and what they feel about me. Some of the messages came from very senior people in the country and I will forever cherish them.

One told me, “I had lost faith in this government but now I think it has a future.”

Another said, “Those Monitor people don’t want you to be a Minister…you know how Mzee hates being second-guessed.”

Most of the messages were supportive, but a few on social media were negative. One vocal academic critic of government tweeted: “Will you really accept to serve a government like this one?”

Well, all I can say, I will continue to do what I do best, researching, teaching and talking economics that works.

What happened after confirmation that the list was a hoax?

Those who know me will tell you few things excite or dampen me out of my skin. I enjoyed both extremes. The day after the announcement was particularly funny. So many social media comical message. The highlight of all was one where I was hiding stones behind my back “waiting for the Daily Monitor editor.” It made me laugh like a retard.

What lessons did you pick from ‘being a minister for a day’?

It helped me appreciate the kind of life politicians live when they win elections or get appointed to big offices, and when they lose power. In my case, this lesson was learned in a space of 48 hours.

Given a chance, where would you strike a balance between having politicians and technocrats in a cabinet?

Very simple; by sticking to the economics that works. I would incentivize the politicians to craft public policies informed by research, science and economics. I would also incentivize bureaucrats to integrate political economy in every public policy they forward to cabinet.

One of the main weaknesses of public policymaking in Africa is that politicians think, almost exclusively, about the politics of policies they vote for, while technocrats do not want to think about politics while designing public policies.

In the end, leaders choose bad policies that maximize political support over those preferred by bureaucrats since they would maximize return on investment but without much political capital in them.

Background

Born in Ngando, Kitagobwa – Butambala to two teachers, Ggoobi studied at Kitagobwa UMEA Primary and Secondary schools, before joining Makerere University.

He graduated from Makerere University in 2003, being among the best students and was recalled to teach Economics at the university. Inspired to love economics by the former governor of Bank of Uganda, Dr Sulaiman Kiggundu (RIP), who gave talks at Ggoobi’s school.

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