NASSER NTEGE SEBAGGALA, the Mayor of Kampala, recently quit DP and formed a new party, the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP), soon after he lost a bruising fight to lead DP into the 2011 presidential election to Norbert Mao during the party’s delegates’ conference in Mbale. MICHAEL MUBANGIZI interviewed the mayor in a blend of Luganda and English. The heavily edited interview was conducted before the LDP was registered.
You quit DP and decided to form a new party after you lost in Mbale. Aren’t you simply a bad loser?
The outcome of that election [in Mbale wasn’t fair.] There was no display of the voters’ register and people who organised the election, such as Matia Nsubuga, Issa Kikungwe and Kenneth Kakande, were also candidates.
It is like having [EC Chairman, Badru] Kiggundu as a candidate in an election! There are now two camps in DP - one led by Mao, another by Prof. Joseph Mukiibi, who was not in Mbale. Mukiibi’s camp is planning its own delegates’ conference in April to elect a President General. The two are going to waste time fighting each other because they are unwilling to reconcile. Even the courts are unlikely to resolve this issue.
The energy we would have used to build the party will be spent reconciling the two. [For] me, I want a winning team. My ideology is that we must win. So, instead of wasting energy fighting one another, it is better I start a new party altogether. So, I am not a bad loser, I just want to see things moving. I have been in DP for 34 years and in my view it’s not going anywhere. Isn’t forming a new party more demanding than uniting one that already exists?
Uniting a party where you have different interests and conflicts is more challenging than developing a new one. The current President of Kenya, Mwai Kibaki, was in KANU but when KANU started having conflicts similar to the ones we have in DP, he pulled out and formed the Democratic Party.
Later, he is the only one who had a party free of conflicts and other political parties joined him and formed NARC which he led to victory. Museveni was also in UPC but when he realised that UPC goals differed with his, he formed UPM. Although UPM won only one seat (in 1980), it now has the biggest number of MPs.
If you say it took long for Museveni to get to power, I may also ask you, how many years has DP been out of power? The problem is that many people, especially us in Buganda, fear to start things. We are comfortable being led. Who are the people behind the new party?
You are not our planner for us to tell you our dealings. Some people want to remain silent supporters. If you have been reading my manifesto, we want to introduce new systems in education, agriculture, NSSF, business and social welfare. Won’t you be alone in that party? Most DP members have condemned your decision to form a new party.
If I am not viable and DP is a strong party, why are they worried or not comfortable because I have left DP? If you leave The Observer and form a new newspaper, why would your employers be worried if you are insignificant? Will your party field a presidential candidate in 2011?
Yes, that is the idea and we have the capacity to do that. But the party will elect a presidential candidate. To me, the most important thing now is not whether I will contest; the important thing is building a stronger party. It doesn’t make logic to be a president when your party has 20 MPs. You can be impeached. We also plan to field candidates in Local Councils and win parliamentary seats.
Why did you decline the compromise position of DP Vice President? Now you are nowhere.
As a journalist, why are you here (at the Mayor’s Residence on Ssezibwa Road)? You are here because you know people like [reading] news about me. I have been hitting headlines.
Whether for wrong, good or bad (reasons), I have been there—on front pages of newspapers, not once or twice. Do you put anybody in your headlines if they are not viable among people? If I open a newspaper and find myself in the inside pages, then I would be scared. I am not only in the written media, but electronic as well.
About positions, I am not in politics to eat. I went to Mbale as a candidate with a manifesto. I didn’t go there to bargain for any position. If that deal (offer of a position) was there, it was an assumption by people to test me and see how I would respond.
What do you make of Mao’s reconciliation efforts?
Reconciliation? How many people has he returned to DP? I don’t see him succeeding. Like I have said before, he will dump DP in River Nile at Karuma. Mao has weaknesses as a person. For instance, there are people who say that he will bring more people in Northern Uganda to DP, but where will he get them [from]? Mao has been DP Vice President, Northern Uganda, but how many MPs, councilors does DP have in the North?
In his 42-member Gulu District Council, only two are DP members! There is no DP MP from Gulu. Mao supported Leander Komakech to replace him as Gulu Municipality MP but he lost miserably. Mao was the campaign manager for Ssebaana Kizito but how many votes did Ssebaana get in Northern Uganda?
Northern Uganda is not going to vote for Mao. Odonga Otto has already told you that Mao doesn’t pose any threat to FDC because if it wasn’t for FDC support, he wouldn’t have won the [Gulu District Chairman] seat.
FDC is doing far better than DP in Northern Uganda because the people there look at Besigye, a non-Northerner, as a unifying factor. That is why they supported him because he wasn’t party to the previous grudges between Langi, Acholi and people from West Nile.
In fact, most people who voted for me in Mbale were from Lango and West Nile. They never voted for Mao. It is easier for them to vote for Sebaggala than one of their own from Lango, Acholi or West Nile.
You people should make research. To say that because Mao is from Northern Uganda, he is going to bring people, that is devoid of analysis by any politician. There is no bloc vote for Mao from Northern Uganda. You also claim a bloc vote from Muslims for your party?
Today Muslims are treated like orphans. Where are the Muslims in all key positions in government, like President, Vice President, Chief Justice, Speaker, Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister?
People assume that Muslims are few; the same mistake was made when I stood against (Peter) Sematimba (for mayor). The contest for mayor was between Christians and Muslims, and at the end of the day I won. Muslims contributed a lot to my victory. So, as I form a party, I have got a bloc vote to start with.
Have you returned your DP card?
The card is not the issue. There are many people with DP cards but are not contributing anything. I haven’t been having a (leadership) role in DP but for many years, I have been contributing a lot in terms of resources and promoting DP candidates.
So you think it’s okay to retain a DP card even after forming another party?
As a journalist, when you go to interview people, make sure you ask sensible questions. I don’t need to return a card to leave DP. A DP card is not like a passport, it’s not government property.
If they (DP) come for their card, will you give it to them?
Time will tell. If they sent you to collect it, I can give it to you. You could be their agent. If that is the case, bring a written letter indicating that you are their agent and I will give it to you. By the way, I don’t have one card; I have seven, ten cards or more because of my contribution to the party.
There is a general feeling that you are being used by the NRM to divide the opposition.
Have I sold anybody to NRM? If one joins NRM, he joins it alone. Many former DP members such as Sam Kutesa, Kisamba Mugerwa and Prof. Gilbert Bukenya joined the NRM, but did they go with anybody? In politics, the important thing is ideology. We have our policies which are different from NRM’s. If we didn’t have them, then it would have been easy for us to join NRM.
Why, then, do people always link you to NRM?
It’s because we are premature in politics. How can you not work with government if two thirds of the money that KCC uses comes from government?
During the US presidential election campaigns, Obama and McCain abused each other but after the election, Obama invited McCain to Chicago and they talked about how to run government.
The problem is that even you, the journalists, haven’t analysed this issue. There are many Republicans working in Obama’s government. A key position of Secretary of Defence in the American government is occupied by Robert Gates, a Republican.
In America, there are three main political parties but despite their differences, every Thursday they meet and discuss how to run their country. Will you join the Inter-Party Alliance?
I will not join IPC because previous coalitions haven’t helped us. In 1996, UPC joined DP but we got nothing. In 2001, I brought Reform Agenda but we never gained anything apart from losing our people.
Some say that you have lost the popularity that enabled you win the Mayoral race in 2001.
Why should anyone be bothered about that? That is the same mistake people keep making when they say that Museveni will go, without assessing his strength and analyzing what is on the ground. My popularity is on the rise; it has increased over time. You wait and see when I start my party.
But you were pelted with stones at Owino Market last year?
Stoning is a different thing altogether. Stoning arises from a volatile situation not created by voters. It is true I went to Owino as you have said but the people in Owino aren’t the people of Kampala who voted me. There are many people from different areas who work in Owino. How did Matia Nsubuga humiliate you when he declared that you contributed Shs 1 million for the conference in Mbale?
The issue was not the Shs 1 million; the issue was how much money I have contributed to DP. [About 3 months ago], I deposited $ 2,500 and later Shs 30 million on the DP account in Centenary Bank. I also gave Shs 7 million for the court case.
So, if you say that I gave Shs 1 million without mentioning my previous contributions, then that is humiliation. He should have kept quiet. Several times, Matia Nsubuga comes here and takes money; the good thing I give money using cheques, if they deny, I will give you proof.
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How many votes does JEEMA has (most Muslim leaders? If political parties are built on religious goals, then Mr. Ssebagaala is wrong. Has he read about what is happening in Nigeria now and in the past? So lets watch him seriously. He has run out of ideas, and has harvested enough. He has satisfied his ego so he should move on with his business.
Mao cant beat Besigye in Acholi written by Nantongo , March 10, 2010
Ssebagala is too ambitious. to think that the contributions he has made to the party can buy him votes. The best example of his mismanagement is the city which has now gone to the dogs, is that the way he wants to lead the whole country.
2011, he will not be anywhere in politics written by Disan ssemaganda , March 11, 2010
Mr.Ssebagala should reconcile with his party the DP. Yes his party may get some positions in Parliament, Local councils but Ssebagala himself will never lead anywhere in uganda if he doesnt join his collegues.
The only way he will future in any position may be will be presidential appointment. wITHOUT THAT Bye bye Mr. Ssebagala from all political positions
It's not about religion written by Ddamba Abdu , March 11, 2010
sebo seya, its not about religion that marks the successfulness of a political party, for example, in the last years mayoral race, i didn't vote for you yet i was a muslim, i mean style up man, u are nolonger at excellent capacity to lead even a group of one people...twakoowa
Ssebagala may fail but has a vision written by Stephen Kakooza , March 11, 2010
I like the way Haji Ssebagala has manoeuvred in situations where one would hide his/her head.
From jail he returned to Uganda as a hello and nobody asked him how he makes fake dollars because he is fearless.
Many elite people decampaigned him for Kampala mayorship because of his education but he surprised them with statistics of the un-educated Ugandans, which even the learned friends did not have.People have seen Professors of Economics die without putting up a single business leave alone building own house.
Being a business person with a business mind, very few people understand his calculation and he has just made a case for Gulu which you can't dispute.
Like the people of West Nile, the People of Acholi need a break from hot politics of having their own at the centre of Controversy to be butchered again after his overthrow.
Uganda's revange politics has made most wanainchi shy away from floating their own tribes because they read politics from different angles with their politicians. They prefer peace regardless of who is at the top.
I have always said that Museveni will never be defeated by his own cadres from NRA like Gen.Muntu, Brig.Kyakabale and Col. Besigye.
i like his courage written by sam , March 11, 2010
But think DP is being unfair to seya.Am not a dp fun but according to what he has done for the party he deserved to have a position otherthan making him their property
... written by Jim Kamezza , March 11, 2010
No comment , not worth
Give us the unedited version please! written by Kiyingi Charles , March 11, 2010
Dear Editor pliz provide us with Seya's unedited version of the interview. He is more of a comedian than a politician these days. Dont deny your readers a good laugh.
SEBAGGALA PLEASE SAVE US THE HUMILIATION!!!!! written by Senyonjo Abbas , March 11, 2010
Surely in a million years do you have dreams that you will one day become a president of Uganda. Common get a life man
MAO'S WIN WEAKENS FDC!!!! MAO CAN WIN IN THE NORTH!!! written by NSUBUGA NSUBUGA , March 11, 2010
MAO'S win weakens FDC!!!! MAO commands a good voter-support and he owns the acholi land if anything I CAN SAY HE IS GREATLY REVERED BY the north and east....
FDC has scored big in the north and east especially the IDP camps..now they (FDC) has to share votes with DP since DP is going to come up strong in ACHOLI/LUO LAND with MAO in the big chair!!!!
So there is cause to worry!!!!....FDC has to eye MAO for a possible alliance or face a defeat!!! NRM may like this coz they hve no vote in the NORTH/LUO land..a defeat of FDC will be a win for NRM!!
MAO needs his fluency in LUGANDA to calm down the anger and prejudice they have on him and the ACHOLI/LUO in buganda!!! he needs to apologise for LUWEERO attrocities even tho he may be a victim of circumestances he did not kill pple in luweero and he needs to promise buganda a solid FEDERAL system-and the solid demands of bgda like land and 900sq miles in qn!!!
one thing DP has to do is to work with all the other parties FDC,UPC,ICP,PDP,and others..to make sure the big party-NRM does not ridge again!!! NRM'S victories in BUGANDA may be down played if DP can work together behind a young and strong leader-MAO SO WHO WILL WIN IN 2011!!!!!!!
Mr written by kabayekka , March 11, 2010
Mr Mayor of Kampala this international city deserves better modern development than what is being done to it. It is 700 miles from the nearest sea port.
Exactly what has been your efforts to help this land locked city and its territory so that people of Uganda can have any hope from your political party and its presidency for a better country? The clear example is NRM that has been at it for 24 good years. Well how many more years of rule do you want?
Ssebagala! the Ugandan symbolic character. written by Nankanja , March 12, 2010
Following his trail in Ugandan politics, and analysing the manner in which he handles issues, one cannot help but wonder why the Uganda legislators have failed to learn a lesson from what Sebagala symbolises.
He is a symbol of the effect of influence in a non educated individual. Infact less of what he does comes as a surprise to several analytical Ugandans.
To me, his behaviour is simply a call to boost the education sector in Uganda. Ugandans have tried tested and found true his lack of intellectual command to run a nation. He is just a lesson that popularity alone is not enough but rather, the level of reasoning among those in whom you are popular.I actually wonder how he has been able to dupe D.P this long. A party in Uganda with the elite. For God and my country.
Not everyone can be president written by John Diisi , March 12, 2010
Some people are cut to be leaders while others are cut to make leaders. If you are cut to be a leader you must identify and work with those cut to be makers of leaders. So who is who? The question was answered in Mbale.
SEYA YOUR THE MAN written by Best M , March 12, 2010
seya sky is the limit.
SEYA! written by Grace , March 12, 2010
Sincerely speaking the topmost job in this beloved country, Uganda is well above the capacity of HIS LORDSHIP the current mayor of Kampala. But sometimes I get afraid when I see our highly qualified engineers, doctors, teachers, politicians etc, behaving more or less like Seya. Dont blame all the chaos in Kampala on one man Seya! Seya did not authorize the chaos we see coming up from the PAC in the parliament!
Sebagala Twakoowa!! written by kizito charlie , March 12, 2010
Look we know all the game you were playing but you lost out. Because even the moslems wont accept your idea!! you will never break DP
NASSER NTEGE SEBAGGALA, the Mayor of Kampala, recently quit DP and formed a new party, the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP), soon after he lost a bruising fight to lead DP into the 2011 presidential election to Norbert Mao during the party’s delegates’ conference in Mbale. MICHAEL MUBANGIZI interviewed the mayor in a blend of Luganda and English. The heavily edited interview was conducted before the LDP was registered.
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